And if my aunt had testicles, she'd be my uncle. Guess it must be Friday-filler because this is a useless exercise. Speculate all you want - it won't matter come June 3.

Just like O'Toole has played a pivatol role in losing every single Republican Freeholder we used to have in Essex County since he took over as Chair.....

I don't think theres any particular animosity between them and Lonegan. Also, if you're speculating about Lonegan's general election strategy, isn't it at least concievable that he would move to the middle somewhat?

Just a hunch....Paul will enlarge the divide and be nothing but baggage.

Republicans lose general elections when they "move to the middle." Ronald Reagan didn't "move to the middle" in 1980. Steve Lonegan won't be moving either. Steve Lonegan is the same conservative he is before the primary that he will be after the primary.

That is the biggest difference between Lonegan and Christie. Christie says he's a conservative. Lonegan is a conservative. New Jersey voters have rejected the stale country club moderates election after election. New Jersey's taxpayers want a conservative change from the Corzine-Codey-McGreevey years and that's Steve Lonegan.

You have to consier a situation where Lonegan wins yet Doherty loses remote. Doherty is Lonegan's strongest underticket candidate, and if he cannot beat the establishment in the 23rd...it will probably be a short (long) night for the man from Bogota.

In the last big election that the Republicans won (2004), they absolutely moved to the middle. Look at the people who the RNC chose to show in prime time at the convention - it wasnt Santorum or Sanford or Newt...it was Rudy, Arnold, McCain, and a former Democrat named Zell Miller. In crunch time, Republicans have been sucessful by putting out moderates as the face of the party. However Mr. Shaftan, if you suceed, this won't happen because there won't be any moderates left.

First - let's call it straight Gilliagn Shaftan. Lonegan is not winning the primary despite all your bluster. Second, Lonegan is a RINO and not a conervative. Raising taxes on 50% of the people in the state - those couples making under $70k and individuals making under $35k - is not conservative, it is something Nancy Pelosi and John Corzine would do. While your team of supporters think the middle class and seniors are "parasites" and "non cotributing" members of society, Christie thinks everyone should get a tax cut - across the board - much like Reagan advocated. To compare a liberal tax increaser like Lonegan to Ronald Reagan is an insult to his memory. He is the furthest thing from a Reaganite - and closer to Florio. At least I will say Corzine only wants to raise taxes on the "rich". You want to raise it on the middle class. Smart campaign move, Gilliagn. I see the SS Lonegan sinking from here.

The fact that this option is even being discussed is a victory for Lonegan. The folks are frustrated with the mushy middle at the moment. Christies ads bashing Lonegan on taxes has turned off many Republicans. Lonegan has the momentum . ITS ALL ABOUT LONEGAN NOW FOR BETTER OR WORSE

It looks like Lonegan has taken over the lead but the debates next week should sort out this question. Christie flipped out when I asked him a question on the radio (it was a hang up and listen thing so I could not respond) and he did the same with the other 2 callers and then ended the interview. He lost of debate between callers on an Atlantic City talk show when they could not even respond.

I cannot imagine what he will do in a real debate with Lonegan. I bet once the 2 debates are done Lonegan will have a 10 point lead over Christie.

You guys crack me up. Lonegan has taken the lead? Best laugh I have had in weeks. Thanks. The fact the subject is being discussed does not mean it will happen. Please check the majority of Wally's Friday-fillers. Many of them bring up points and scenarios that are unlikely to happen. The fact that someone fell for it is embarrassing.

The Lonegan team has discovered that when Chris Christie was six years old, he told his mom he ate his brussel sprouts when he really hid them in his napkin and threw them away when he was excused from the dinner table!

On the heels of this stunning development, Rick Shaftan reports that Lonegan has taken a 12 point lead in their latest house poll!

More to come as this story unfolds. 

Steve Lonegan: Fighting for your right to have your cake and eat it too!

There were people that were negatively affected by Reagan's 1986 tax plan when he tried to make the system flatter by having only two tax brackets. In order to make a better system for all Americans, he needed to eliminate many of the deductions that people took.

Lonegan's Flat Tax plan, like Reagan's, provides a tremendous improvement over the current plan. It makes everyone contribute something, even if very small, for the services they receive. Unless we follow Lonegan's lead, we will have a system where fewer and fewer people are supporting an ever increasing number of people demanding more benefits. This has what led us to our poor financial conditions. It is unsustainable.

Those that may actually be paying more will benefit in the end because of the incrreased economic growth and lower property taxes that would result because of Lonegan's Flat Tax plan.

Did Reagan's income tax plan RAISE taxes on 50% of the population like Lonegan's will? Please do not equate the two because they are no where near the same. Good try though. I am sorry you will be supporting the only RINO in the primary as well. I am sorry you agree with Team Lonegan that seniors and middle class workers are "parasites" and non contributing members of society.

nobody knows who is going to win this primary, However you must agree that Lonegan is making a horse race out of it. Without any county lines and against all odds

nobody knows who is going to win this primary, However you must agree that Lonegan is making a horse race out of it. Without any county lines and against all odds

A horse race makes the assumption that I am worried - which I am not. As I have stated since day 1, my only issue is whether conservatives will support the nominee when it is Christie come June 3. Obviosuly from the majority of epopel on here, they will not. However, in light of the recent announcement from Lonegan's camp that he will raise taxes on the middle class and seniors, I find it hard to believe that conservatives will still vote for him. Now I know who the treue RINOs are.

Like many liberals, you believe conservatives are stupid and cannot see the benefits of Mayor Lonegan's proposals. While I am glad to see that Mr. Christie has come around to adopting many of Steve Lonegan's platform, conservatives and most Republicans can tell the difference between a poser (Christie) and the genuine article (Lonegan).

To answer your question, I have no idea what percentage of people had their taxes raised as a result of Reagan '86 tax plan. However, I do know that the top tax rate was lowered from 50% to 28% while the bottom rate was raised from 11% to 15%.

It should make you happy to know that Mayor Lonegan's plan provides for 100% of ALL taxpayers to get two additional tax reductions when the rate is reduced to 2.5% and then reduced again to 2.1%.

First the only liberal in this disucssion is Lonegan nased on his tax policy of raising income taxes on 50% of the popultation. Nancy Peolsi is blushing right now. I, for one, am a conservative no matter what you think or say. Gun loving, anti tax, pro-life, cut spending conservative. But let's get to the comparisons. You are being a little disingenuous when stating that all Reagan did in 86 was raise the lower bracket from 11-15%. He also raised the income level of the bottom rate from 5k to 29k. The people you claim are getting a tax increase under Reagan did not because they were not required to pay federal income taxes based on their income level. Good try though. Additionally, unlike Lonegan, he added items which you could deduct. Lonegan would eliminate them. But you and the Lonegan supporters continually refuse to address the issue of Lonegan RAISING taxes on 50% of the people. That is not Reaganesque - it if Florioitis.

The journey's been long, and many said we'd never make it to the end. But as usual the pessimists left one thing out -- out of their calculations: the American people. They haven't made this the freest country and the mightiest economic force on this planet by shrinking from challenges. They never gave up. And after almost three years of commitment and hard work, one headline in the Washington Post told the whole story: "The Impossible Became the Inevitable," and the dream of America's fair-share tax plan became a reality.

When I sign this bill into law, America will have the lowest marginal tax rates and the most modern tax code among major industrialized nations, one that encourages risk-taking, innovation, and that old American spirit of enterprise. We'll be refueling the American growth economy with the kind of incentives that helped create record new businesses and nearly 11.7 million jobs in just 46 months. Fair and simpler for most Americans, this is a tax code designed to take us into a future of technological invention and economic achievement, one that will keep America competitive and growing into the 21st century.

But for all tax reform's economic benefits, I believe that history will record this moment as something more: as the return to the first principles. This country was founded on faith in the individual, not groups or classes, but faith in the resources and bounty of each and every separate human soul. Our Founding Fathers designed a democratic form of government to enlist the individual's energies and fashioned a Bill of Rights to protect its freedoms. And in so doing, they tapped a wellspring of hope and creativity that was to -- to completely transform history.

The history of these United States of America is indeed a history of individual achievement. It was their hard work that built our cities and farmed our prairies; their genius that continually pushed us beyond the boundaries of existing knowledge, reshaping our world with the steam engine, polio vaccine, and the silicon chip. It was their faith in freedom and love of country that sustained us through trials and hardships and through wars, and it was their courage and selflessness that enabled us to always prevail.

But when our Founding Fathers designed this government -- of, by, and for the people -- they never imagined what we've come to know as the progressive income tax. When the income tax was first levied in 1913, the top rate was only 7 percent on people with incomes over 500,000 dollars. Now that's the equivalent of multimillionaires today. But in our lifetime we've seen marginal tax rates skyrocket as high as 90 percent, and not even the poor have been spared. As tax rates escalated, the tax code grew ever more tangled and complex, a haven for special interests and tax manipulators, but an impossible frustration for everybody else. Blatantly unfair, our tax code became a source of bitterness and discouragement for the average taxpayer. It wasn't too much to call it un-American.

Meanwhile, the steeply progressive nature of the tax struck at the heart of the economic life of the individual, punishing that special effort and extra hard work that has always been the driving force of our economy. As government's hunger for ever more revenues expanded, families saw tax cuts -- or taxes, I should say, cut deeper and deeper into their paychecks; and taxation fell most cruelly on the poor, making a difficult climb up from poverty even harder. Throughout history, the oppressive hand of government has fallen most heavily on the economic life of the individuals. And more often than not, it is inflation and taxes that have undermined livelihoods and constrained their freedoms. We should not forget that this nation of ours began in a revolt against oppressive taxation. Our Founding Fathers fought not only for our political rights but also to secure the economic freedoms without which these political freedoms are no more than a shadow.

************************

Here are more of Reagan's words:

"Have we the courage and the will to face up to the immorality and discrimination of the progressive tax, and demand a return to
traditional proportionate taxation?"

****************************
Now, anyone that has heard Steve Lonegan speak, even Chris Christie himself, would have to admit that Lonegan is the candidate adhering to Reagan's principles.

Di Marco

DO you realize how stupid you look when you call him "Mayor" Lonegan. He is not a Mayor anymore. I realize we call former presidents "President" but there is a difference between the pretige between the presidency and the Mayor of a tiny town.

This week's article by Charles Stile of The Record and the change in polling indicate a surging Lonegan and collpasing Christie. Poetically, fatboy is collapsing under his own weight of vahue, generic positions under the guid of being a self-proclaimed, pro-life conservative while incredibly trying to claim Lonegan of all people wants to raise taxes! It isn't working becuase it isn't believable! Christie is in for a nice spanking come the debate as he is finally exposed for the fraud he is - a failed former freeholder who couldn't get re-nominated by his own party, the country club sect of Morris County! Now three-term former Mayor Steve Lonegan is showing fatboy and his moderate media team how a conservative can win in a so-called blue state like NJ. Excellent job Team Lonegan. This will be the biggest upset in state history since Jeff Bell defeated Clifford Case in 1978. But this time, there is no popular former NBA player to beat. It will be an unpopular tax raising liberal named Corzine who nobody likes! Vote Column "A"- All the way!

Curious minds want to know. DiMarco - It's a great speech. I have read it a few times before. But please indicate to me where Reagan stated that raising the income tax on 50% of the people is what he was in favor of or pushed for. I don't see it in that speech. Also, if you couldshow me historical data that shows 50% of the US population saw their taxes increase under the TRA86, then I will say I was wrong and you were right. Team Lonegan has stated that. Parasites (those individuals making under 35k and those married making under $70k) and non contributors (seniors) beware. Steve Lonegan is coming after your tax dollars.

Christie in the Stile article comes off as another slimeball lawyer.
Christie could not mention the words Republican or Conservative a few months ago.
He will say anything and do anything to get elected and the 3/4 and 4/4 Republican Voters know that.

I have no idea what percentage of people had their taxes raised as a result of Reagan '86 tax plan.

 However, as was written above, Reagan stated that "the steeply progressive nature of the tax struck at the heart of the economic life of the individual, punishing that special effort and extra hard work that has always been the driving force of our economy."

Using Reagan's words, it is undeniable that Lonegan's Flat Tax plan is:

1) a "fair-share tax plan"

2) "Fair and simpler for most"

3) "the return to the first principles"

4) "a tax code designed to take us into a future of technological invention and economic achievement"

Clearly, Lonegan has "the courage and the will to face up to the immorality and discrimination of the progressive tax, and demand a return to traditional proportionate taxation?"

In contrast, Reagan would deem Christie's desire to continue the progressivity of the current tax plan as:

a) "a haven for special interests and tax manipulators, but an impossible frustration for everybody else"

b) "blatantly unfair"

c) "a source of bitterness and discouragement for the average taxpayer" and would "call it un-American."

It looks like Lonegan has pulled ahead and Christie needs to run all these crazy ads to try to get back in the lead.

back on topic:

DiGaetano is the unquestionable choice between the two. There isn't a core Doherty supporter alive that isn't already a rock solid Lonegan supporter (artificial instances of such a phenomenon that might be created on this thread to respond precisely to that point notwithstanding) - while Doherty has a string of issues and a trail of negative press releases waiting to offend the broader vote.

DiGaetano, while everyone is free to debate what depth he does or does not add, at least has the potential to bridge a new class of votes.

You can manipulate words to make it appear anyone would fit the characteristics Reagan mentioned. The fact is Reagan would never have raised taxes on 50 percent of the population as Lonegan suggests. Nor would he have raised taxes on the middle class and seniors. Grasping at straws. And where is this poll you guys are making up? Oh yeah - it does not exist.

A solid conservative with managerial experience & executive exprience and a known legislative leader who can broker with the legislature. This is a great ticket. Mayor Lonegan and former Majority Leader DiGaetano is what New Jersey needs. Not fatboy stuffing doughnuts in his facing crying to the public not to attack him! The Michelin Man and his milk toast moderate media handlers are sticking fatboy's head right into the Lonegan the Lion's mouth! June 2nd dinner will be served! I'll have my fatboy "moderate" LOL Vote Column "A" - All the way!

Does Christie favor the current progressive income tax system?

This is a simple question. There is no manipulation of words.

"Have we the courage and the will to face up to the immorality and discrimination of the progressive tax, and demand a return to traditional proportionate taxation?"

- Ronald Reagan

We all know that Steve Lonegan does have the courage and the will.

Besides you juvenile insults, you show yourself to be challenged in other ways as well. Lonegan and Paul D....ahhh yes--South Jersey would love to support that ticket. Jeez you people are pathetic. Paul D has some ethical challenges as well....don;t you Paul....  And as for Lonegan leading right now....there's a bridge in Brooklyn for sale my friend. The only person who peddles that B.S. poll is Shaftan---the more he gets you people to believe the bigger his cut is. That ethically challenged man is laughing all the way to the bank. EX Mayor Lonegan is unelectable.

Di Gaetano and Doherty are pretty much the only elected or former elected officials of any weight at all who have endorsed Lonegan. Pitiful. Even they probably would not have done so, if they could not get something out of it.

Di Gaetoano seems to have some fish to fry in that Bergen, Essex legislative district. Doherty was pushed off his column by his GOP boss.

Both D&D may get Lonegan government taxpayer matched funds trickling down from Lonegan's campaign to help them in their own up hill battles. I like D&D. But they are just two guys. Christie has dozens if not hundreds of supporters with legislative or state or county level political or cabinet experience to choose from.

Bergen County Clerk Kathe Donovan & State Senator Jennifer Beck are moderate Republicans, and would be excellent candidates .. but running with Chris Christie.

Ultra conservatives like Lonegan supporters, have been accusing Kathe of being a RINO (Republican in name only) for years .. obviously blind to the fact that being a moderate has made her very appealing to ALL voters, not just Republicans!

the Donovan option is not on the cards
since rumor has it that Christie is furious
at Donovan for trying to fix the lines in Bergen and appointing an unknown unqualified person as county campaign manager.

Steve may have two good candidates but both represent the past, more specifically what was wrong with the party. He needs to find someone not part of the system, who like himself is a renegade for the principles of the Republican Party. Both Paul and Mike will have votes that compromised and when Steve goes to the public it will be with a less known more idyllic person.

How about Mike Illions, Hank Butehorn, or Paul Danielczyk?

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."   Thomas Jefferson

Someone who agrees more with Jon Corzine than most Republicans? Someone who thinks Colin Powell is good for the GOP? Someone like Arlen Spector who isn't a Republican at all? Kathy Donovan? Ran for Lyndhurst commissioner and lost Ran for state senate and lost ran for US Congress and lost ran twice for county executive and lost Please. We need leadership, not RINO's! Lonegan is leading and Lonegan is winning. Vote Column "A" - All the way!

Would a moderate Republican be someone who is the opposite of a conservative, say on tax issues? Would a conservative support increasing taxes on 50% of the people in NJ? ummmmmmmmm, NO. Lonegan is the only RINO in this race.

Since everyone should have done their taxes recently, it would be easy for them to determine if they would benefit from the Flat Tax plan Mayor Lonegan is proposing.

OC, I am still waiting....does Christie prefer the progressive form of taxation?

but, given his consistent and often hysterical sonnets to Lonegan, does anyone think he has any idea how the Christie camp might be feeling?  Since Donovan would have no role in selecting a county campaign manager, it's clear that paramus is a hater with an agenda to try to stir up something where there is nothing.

Dems points out that Donovan has lost an election or two...about half as many as Lonegan has lost.  It's funny, while i don"t think Lonegan would have any chance in November, I have a much bigger problem with Lonegan supporters than with Lonegan himself.  Still Lonegan is empowering them as well as Shaftan's sleazy tactics so he has to take some of the heat for that.  He is not leading in anything but hysterical zealotry and grossly misleading rhetoric.  Sounds like Dems & donts is someone who has been working on the consistently losing campaigns in Bergen and not the 2 winning campaigns Donovan has run in the past 5 years. 

If Lonegan is the better candidate, why are democrats trying so hard to make sure he is the nominee and not christie?

Let's give Steve a conservative running mate who might actually be a bigger conservative than he is! Mike Illions for Lt. Governor, change that you can really believe in!

"The only man who never makes a mistake is the man who never does anything."
                --Theodore Roosevelt--

Hey OC, maybe you liberals can explain how one cuts taxes for people who do not actually pay any?  And remember we are talking about INCOME TAXES!

Plus, it is conservative to want everyone to pay the same percentage of their salary.  Since the the lower the salary, the less one pays, and sometimes one pays nothing at all, while these are the same people who use most of the services that taxes pay for.

I thought all you liberals were all about fairness, what is more fair then asking EVERYBODY TO PAY SOMETHING!  Especially those who actually benefit from these payments more then others.

Christie/Corzine/Obama, offering to cust taxes for those who already do not pay them.

Paramus is right. I heard that the BCRO
Chairman was in court last week because Donovans pick for county campaign manager
screwed up the chairmans lines.

Millie you have all ways been Donovans mouthpiece

from what I hear, you've got several of your facts wrong there sparky i'm not shilling for anyone just keeping it real

Dont worry Joe, the Lyndhurst Ladies have zero Republican following outside that Democrat town

If you refuse to answer my questions, why should I give you the courtesy? Lonegan supports a tax increase on 50% of the population in NJ - his campaign's figure, not mine. A real conservatiev would not support an increase on 50% of the people. Formaja - you can call me whatever you want. I know my conservative credentials and willmatch them with yours any day of the week. The only true RINO here is your ilk and Lonegan. But forgive me - do people making $35,000 a year pay income taxes??? Yes. Do couples making $70,000 pay income taxes? Yes. Those are the "parasites" who will see their taxes INCREASED under the real RINO Steve Lonegan's plan. Again - his campaign's numbers, not mine or Christie's. And now I am releived to see that you opposed across the board tax cuts. Good Lord, you are a raving lefty.

and it has been posted by others, people earning $35,000 and couple earning $70,000 already pay more then the 2.9% and will see their taxes go down.  I am not cutting and pasting other peoples postings, so you will just have to go and read but the numbers come from Trenton directly.  The people who will see tax increases are people who currently pay nothing (1.5% and get it all back the next year) or pay 2% (and get 1.5% back).  And many of the people who pay nothing are the biggest consumers of tax payer funded programs (Heritage foundation).

So what you are basically saying is that people earning very little money never strive to make more, and they should continue to make very little money and therefore the flat tax will never be a benefit to them.  So teens making minimum wage will never make more, I see.  Lots of faith you liberals have in people.  Oh wait, I forgot, faith in governmnet, silly me.

And I do not use RINO, and have told others to stop.  It is simply liberal, sorry if facts are annoying.

numbers. They claim that taxes will INCREASE for those individuals, not decrease as you claim. Who is not telling the truth - you or them? Those individuals were called parasites and non conrtibuting members of sicety by a Longena supporter. But you did NOT answer the question. I never asked a question about people earning those salaries. I take the word of Lonegan's campaign when I referenced those numbers. My question - AGAIN for those having difficulty reading - is it conservative to advocate for increasing taxes on 50% of the population? The answer is obvious - it is NO. And I will use the term RINO because it fits Lonegan and all who support him and his increasing taxes on 50% of the people in NJ. No real conservative would advocate that position. So you must be a RINO too.

but you did not like the answer.

You are wrong, OC. The tax rates for singles making $35K & up and joint filers making $70K & up are currently between 3.5% and 8.97%. Corzine has spoke of raising them further. All will see a rate reduction to Lonegan's 2.9% Flat Tax. Futhermore, within Lonegan's first term as Governor, the rate will be reduced to 2.1% which will represent a 27.5862% tax cut for everyone when these rates go into effect.

Although I am sure you will not be able to answer these simple questions, I will pose them nevertheless:

1) Christie promises "across the board" tax cuts. What will be the amount of the cuts?

2) Christie promises to maintain the Homestead Rebate checks. Everyone knows that these checks come from Gross Income Tax receipts. Governor Corzine needed to suspend these rebates due to the fiscal problems of New Jersey. With Christie promising to cut the income taxes "across the board", how does he plan to pay for the rebate checks?

3) Will Christie maintain the current progressive nature of our income tax?

to expect people using state services and tax payer money who also work for a living to actually contribute something to the programs that they use.  Yes it is conservative to ask everyone to pay THE SAME PERCENTAGE in taxes regardless of salary.  Progressive taxes, which is what Christie/Corzine advocates, is not conervative.

Once again, you cannot cut taxes for people who do not pay any.

Thank you DiMarco for the exact numbers.

Like I tell everyone, do the math yourself.

Now...I wonder if Christie will provide any details. I guess if he says the sun will shine tomorrow, everyone will get a tax cut, a rebate check, and a puppy, we should all believe him.

Maybe P.T. Barnum was right, "There's a sucker born every minute." That is the only explaination I could come with for someone willing to vote for Christie.