Should be entertaining watching the venom come out at Murray from the Lonegan camp.

Hey Wally, what was it you said again about paybacks being a real bitch???

Steve Lonegan: Fighting for your right to have your cake and eat it too!

A flat tax proposed by Lonegan is a substantial improvement than the current income tax structure for New Jersey's beleaguered middle and upper income families. But it is not a fiscally conservative plan...Lonegan's flat tax plan would be an enormous target for the Democrats who would demagogue his proposal-and rightfully so.

Am I getting it right: your argument is that Lonegan's tax scheme is an improvement over what we have, but it somehow lacks an ideological purity you seek, and Democrats won't like it?

For Lonegan to wear the mantle of fiscal conservatism, he should propose that the income tax be no higher than 1.4%.

But furthermore - if he had arbitrarily set the maximum rate on a flat tax to 1.4% - he would then meet your purity test and you would bestow upon him the 'mantle of fiscal conservatism'?

Everyone has to have stake when taxes are raised.  If you have one group not paying taxes you will have others trying to vote no taxes for them selves as well.  That is how we ended where we are now.  You don't seem to have a better solution, all you do is claim this won't work.

 In fact Lonegan supports ending both the income and sales tax like it was in 1966. 

 Citizens will be able to decide for themselves at the upcoming May 12 debate.

"the lowest income earners in the state, their taxes would more than double initially under Lonegan's proposal and their tax rate would still be higher (2.1%) than they are now after Lonegan's tax plan is fully implemented."

                                       "THAT'S TOO DAMM BAD"

                    I'm sick of carrying the load for these losers.

Once again, the thick headed wingnuts are too dense to see what's going on here.

This has nothing to do with tax plans, it has everything to do with revenge.

Murray is exacting his revenge since he feels that Lonegan betrayed him in last years Senate primary. Steve did no favors for Murray so why should Murray do any for Steve?

I must say, isn't it fun to watch wingnuts devour each other!?

Steve Lonegan: Fighting for your right to have your cake and eat it too!

Taking advise from Murry is like re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Exactly what was the last election Murry won?

Once again, the thick headed wingnuts are too dense to see what's going on here. This has nothing to do with tax plans, it has everything to do with revenge. Murray is exacting his revenge since he feels that Lonegan betrayed him in last years Senate primary.

If Murray has had a year to cook this dish, you'd think he'd have put some time into it.

I think the PolitickerNJ "l0lz l00k at that raT on h1s h3ad l0lzzzzerz" crew cuts more deeply.

Seth Grossman, www.libertyandprosperity.org

Sabrin refused to help Lonegan fight the big spending ballot questions. Sabrin refused to help Lonegan fight "affordable" housing or paid family leave schemes. Sabrin campaigned as the Ron Paul candidate for U.S. Senate. At Corzine's town hall meetings on toll hikes, Sabrin didn't say a word about the toll hikes. Instead he handed out literature criticizing Lautenberg (or whas it Menendez) for not bringing back enough federal tax dollars to New Jersey. Sabrin's press releases were so sloppy and immature, they looked like they were written by high school kids. Sabrin's speech at the Atlantic County Republican Convention was awful to the point of being embarrassing.   Sabrin never asked Lonegan or anyone else for their opinions on whether he should run.   He just went ahead and ran--and then assumed that every conservative was obligated to support him.   And so Sabrin got his feelings hurt when Lonegan and other conservatives like me didn't drop everything to help him.  Murray Sabrin may be OK in his ivory tower on campus. But he just is not quite ready for the world of real politics with real people.

I think Molly Shannon said it best:

I LOVE IT, I LOVE IT, I LOVE IT!!!

Steve Lonegan: Fighting for your right to have your cake and eat it too!

"I must say, isn't it fun to watch wingnuts devour each other!?"

Like watching Robert DeNiro and Joe Pesci in Goodfellas.

The irony is 99% of voters don't give a rats ass for any of this crap. They'll just vote for the guy who looks and sounds better than the other guy.

It's like Gilligan and the Skipper arguing over seating arrangements on the SS Minnow.

Maybe you wrote them because you constantly write like a 2nd grader. Add to your list conspiracy theorist and you would be perfect for Murray's press position.

And other than Rick Shaftan's opinion, who did Lonegan ask on whether he should run - this time or the last time? Thanks for the laugh on how to run a campaign. Go back to your Dungeons and Dragons fantasy world where you constantly make things up like Jim Carville.

OC,

Every race should face a primary challenge. Our party and state would be better as a result.

That wasn't the point of Seth's rant or my comment. Apparently, in Seth's world, one must ask for permission to run for office (please see what he wrote about Sabrin). I merely wanted to know if Lonegan asked for permission as Seth states others should? However, I will then ask if hell should freeze over and Lonegan wins the election in November, will you voice the same belief if someone should primary him? It is for the good of the party after all.

"But he just is not quite ready for the world of real politics with real people."

The only thing real about the Shaftan/Sabrin/Lonegan campaigns during the last few years is all the money, including taxpayer's, that's been flushed down the toilet.

Murray is right on this one. Libertarians and I hope conservatives should never ever propose a tax increase.

It looks really bad for Seth to be bitching about Murray not helping on the toll road nonesense. A true libertarian would actually be for selling the toll roads altogether. Call me a wingnut too, but I think the state should have sold off the toll roads and used the proceeds to pay down debt or reduce income tax rates across the board.

The toll road nonesense, paid family leave etc. were just BS issues manufactured by Lonegan and Shaftan to give Lonegan some name recognition.

The Lonegan income tax hike scheme is DOA. No Democrat would ever vote for it. And no Republican in anyplace but the safest Republican district would consider voting for it. If Merkt wasn't such a Lonegan suck-up, he'd criticize Lonegan income tax hike scheme as impractical from a legislative standpoint.

And just what is Murray Sabin's qualifications to continually publish an article? That he has run for office but lost? Me thinks that there is the aroma of rotten apples as it pertains to Lonegan

Seth Grossman, www.libertyandprosperity.org

I ran for public office several times. Sometimes I won, and sometimes I lost. But I never ran for any public office without first asking as many political leaders as possible for their opinions on my running, before I declared and asked for their support. To me, it was common sense and courtesy. I was genuinely surprised when Murray Sabrin announced he was running for U.S. Senate first--and only later asked for support. He also made Ron Paul's isolationist foreign policy a key part of his campaign without considering the opinions of anyone else. And, of course, he had no interest in stopping Corzine's toll hikes, etc. All this rubbed me the wrong way, and I think others also had that feeling.

Or does abolishing the income tax all together as Sabrin advocates, an even bigger pipe dream, and even more reckless proposal than a flat tax?

Sounds like this plan would be demonized as extremist too. Although Christie is using Murray Sabrin in his radio ads to trash Lonegan, he seems very slow to adopt his brilliant idea of no income tax.
Lonegan wants to Lower the flat tax to 2.1 in the third year right? Sounds like a gradual plan taking int account the reality of the situation. I mean if Lonegan thought abolishing the income tax were that easy, I'm sure he would already be promoting the idea.

It was good to see Sabrin's honest and accurate opinion that "For most of New Jersey's taxpayers Lonegan's plan would mean a substantial tax cut."  He even goes on to say "That's the good news."  Frankly, since Mr. Christie doesn't plan a tax cut of any kind for a year or more, I can't see how Sabrin can cavil as he does about the timing vs Christie's simple inaction plan. 

Moreover, the flat tax is a broader-based tax, and that is usually a positive.  That some workers who have gotten by in the past with very little tax would have very little+ now is simply the result of sharing the burden, and adds the incentive of broadening the population that will be in favor of reduced spending.  Specifically, by the way, a tax of 1.4% on an income of $20,000 after deductions amounts to $280, and increasing that to 2.1% makes it $420. The difference, $140, reduces a weekly paycheck by ~$2.80. 

It seems to me that the increase in absolute dollars is just not a reason to avoid converting to a less expensive system of taxation (ie, the complexity is vastly reduced and the handling and processing costs go way down) that is also enacted in Pennsylvania, improving our competitive edge in attracting employers.

Thanks for confirming what I have been saying. Lonegan is a serial tax rasier in the mold of Jim Florio.

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